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« Jeffrey Sachs says runaway Medicare costs are a ‘myth’ | Main | Who arrested David Willoughby? »

May 17, 2012

Comments

met

This would be easier if we were face to face, I don't have time to keep going back and forth and looking up things on the Internet. You're going to believe what you believe and I'll do the same.

met

In regards to your article that you referenced, that's spending as a percentage of GDP. BIG DIFFERENCE!! There's a few reasons for that:

1. Unemployment has been between 8%-10% and as a result tax revenues are down. In other words, less revenue for the government.

2. Bush Tax Cuts were extended so again, less revenue coming into the government.

3. He came in his first year and spent a bit over $1 trillion to try to kickstart the economy. McCain would have done something as well. Maybe cut taxes even more, but that costs money as well.

The article you reference explains just that, federal spending as a percentage of GDP. It's because we're producing less as a nation. Less people at work.

The spending levels won't change under any president until Congress can compromise. This has nothing to do with Bush or Obama. Presidents get way too much blame!

In regards to overall spending, no, Obama hasn't spent like a madman.

I'll sign off with that:

Federal Spending under Obama

George

Yes, that article I referenced displayed spending as a percentage of GDP. That is all the more reason Obama should be focused on controlling spending.

However, the numbers I provided right before that are absolute. SPENDING JUMPED SIGNIFICANTLY AS SOON AS OBAMA STEPPED INTO OFFICE. There is no escaping this fact.

George

met:

Your article sets 2009 as the baseline.
This is baloney. THAT IS THE YEAR OBAMA AND THE DEMOCRATS MADE SPENDING JUMP. Holding the line after that is closing the barn door after the animals are out.

I want to be your landlord. I am going to raise your rent 50% and then hold it steady for four years and tell you what a great guy I am by holding your rent steady.

CJW

And stop with the BS about Bush tax cuts.

First off, cuts from what? There is no tax amount that must be foisted on American taxpayers that warrants this BS talk about "tax cuts" all of the time.

Secondly, there are no longer any Bush tax cuts or tax rates. What we have now were not inherited from Bush by the irresponsible Obama. Obama agreed to do the same thing Bush had been doing, most likely from a lack of imagination and leadership on his part.

If you want to associate a president with the current tax rates or "tax cuts", what we have now are the Obama tax cuts. And, yes, thank you for those rates. And, no, quit spending more than we are taking in.

met

lol you guys clearly don't understand how the budget process works, nor do you undertsand how our government works.

When you have tax cuts, you have to make up for that revevue somewhere. If you don't, then you must borrow money to pay for that lack of revenue, hence this governemnt is still paying off debts due to those tax cuts.

Everything costs money.

met

George, I'll give you another chance...how much is Bush and Obama responsible for with the 2009 budget?

See if you understand how the budget process works.

met

CJW, Obama wanted to raise taxes on the rich and let the Bush tax cut expire on those making more than $250K. We've been living off the Bush tax cut since 2001. Stop with the bullsh*t!

Everyone knows that this is Bush's tax cut. Come on, be real! No one ever talks about it like it's the Obama tax cut because it's not what he wanted to do. He compromised.

Here's the deal, I've given you guys facts by the bipartisan politifact.com which hammers both R's and D's and you guys just can't accept it. Unless Fox News doesn't say it, its false and a lie. It's bullsh*t!

I have George who doesn't understand how budgets work and thinks the President passes a budget and I have CJW who is lost about the tax code. I mean seriously, dude, I don't know what the hell you wrote about the Bush tax cut. I'm lost man lol

met

You guys wanna dance...ok, who's responsible for what regarding the 2009 budget. Let's start there. Let's discuss this one piece at a time, let's see how fair and objective you guys are....

George

met: I'll take your bait.

Who is responsible for the 2009 budget?
Congress and the president. Two presidents oversaw it and two Democratic Congresses oversaw it.

Bush proposed $3.1T in spending for FY2009. That fiscal year goes from Oct. 2008 to Sept. 2009. So Bush and the Democratic Congress were responsible for four months of a $3.1T in spending. That would be 4/12 of $3.1T = $1.03T.

As soon as Obama shows up, the budget becomes more. A Democratic Congress passed it. Obama signed it. So Obama and a Democratic Congress are responsible for the remainder of the budget. That would be $3.5T - $1.03T = $2.47T.

Obama and the Democratic Congress were then responsible for spending $309B per month during the last 8 months of the 2009 budget. Bush requested spending at $258B per month.
You can see the unbridled Democrats had already set their spending frenzy into action.

George

One more note: Obama was part of that Democratic Congress that presided during Bush's term. So Obama holds an even greater responsibility for the 2009 budget.

met

George, here we go, the 2009 budget:

Bush proposed a $3.1 trillion budget for FY2009 and it was approved and passed by Congress, ie. that's by both D's and R's by the way. Both parties approve a budget. That $3.1 trillion is for the entire fiscal year. As a result, Bush is responsible for $3.1 trillion from Oct 2008 to Sept 2009.

Then Obama came in and added the following:

$800B stimulus (Which half was tax cuts by the way)
$200B TARP
$410B A spending bill to avoid a shutdown. (Many people don't count this under Obama because it was unfinished business from the previous President and Congress.)

There's actually a couple other things that Bush left for the following President as well, but we won't get into that. Back to the issue at hand, if you want to count that $410 spending bill since Obama technically signed it into law then I'll do that. As a result, we're looking at about $1.4-$1.5 trillion of new spending by Obama in 2009.

This is why you see the difference in proposed, $3.1 trillion budget by Bush and enacted, $3.5 trillion. That difference is the roughly $410 billion spending bill that Obama signed in March/April 2009. It was unfinished business from the 2009 budget which is the last one put forth by Bush. Obama signed it but its from Bush's last budget. This is why when you look at wikipedia it says $3.5 trillion was enacted. The way our government works, Bush and the previous Congress are responsible for the full $3.5 trillion but I'll count the $410T under Obama for this exercise.

So in conclusion, Bush is responsible for roughly $3.1 trillion and Obama is responsible for roughly $1.4-1.5 trillion in FY 2009.

Note: If Romney wins, Obama will be responsible for FY2013. However, I'm sure Romney will do a couple things to add to it just like Obama did in 2009 and Bush did in 2001.

George

"So in conclusion, Bush is responsible for roughly $3.1 trillion...in FY 2009."

We're in agreement here. So, when Obama tacks on $400 billion and proceeds to give us budgets of:
2010: $3.7T
2011: $3.8T
2012: $3.8T
2013: $3.8T,
how can anyone honestly say that "the $4.5 trillion in debt occurred under Obama has been largely accumulated by policies already in place?"

The honest, undisputable fact is that Obama has raised spending significantly and, if you merely add up the additional spending, you get:
2009: $0.4T
2010: $0.6T ($3.7T - $3.1T)
2011: $0.7T ($3.8T - $3.1T)
2012: $0.7T ($3.8T - $3.1T)
---------------------------
Total: $2.4T

In summary, OBAMA IS RESPONSIBLE FOR MOST OF THE $4.5T OF DEBT ACCUMULATED DURING HIS ADMINSTRATION.

George

And, actually, Obama is responsible for more -- much more. His failed policies have kept revenue down contributing even more to the deficits and debt.

CJW

Paul Krugman keeps pretending that spending has gone down

George

President Obama: The Biggest Government Spender In World History

CJW

Another Record!… Obama on Track For 4th Straight Year of Trillion Dollar Deficit

CJW

Federal Government's Debt Jumps More Than $1T for 5th Straight Fiscal Year

CJW

Administration projects $1.2T 2012 budget deficit

CJW

White House Projects 4th Trillion Dollar Deficit

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