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« ‘Heroes’: Pentagon unveils a series of stories on courageous GIs of the Afghanistan and Iraq wars | Main | Murdoc says it’s a civil war, and has been »

October 28, 2006

Comments

Kevin

Way to go Ms. Cheney! I like tough women.

Continuing my heartless conservative campaign, I think waterboarding should be done to every terrorist suspect at the time we capture them. Just in case. It wasn't Ms. Cheney's place to do so, but it would have been cool as hell if she said something to that effect.

;)

Frank Warner

Waterboarding appears to be the line between which we consider something torture or not.

Is it torture? It's close. But I admit, I don't know enough about the procedure. Apparently, it doesn't kill you. It only makes you feel like you might die.

Should torture be used on prisoners? No.

Are there ever exceptions to that no-torture rule? Bill Clinton says yes. Dick Cheney hints yes (if waterboarding is torture).

The line, the exceptions. The debate should be over drawing the line, and deciding whether there are exceptions.

Instead, the debate has been almost deliberately sabotaged by both sides, who know that everyone has a different definition of torture, and who refuse to define it for themselves.

Beyond that, President Bush has a point when he says he doesn't want to reveal which kind of pressure detainees are subjected to, and which kind they won't see.

We don't want them training to avoid telling us about their plans for the next mass murder.

Bait and switch. It would be great if the terrorists spent all their time training to resist waterboarding, only to find out U.S. interrogators never do waterboarding.

Asher Abrams

I love this -

Cheney: All right, all right, Wolf. I’m here to talk about my book. But if you want to talk about distortion…

Blitzer: We’ll talk about your book.

Frank Warner

This is good, too:

Blitzer: With all due respect, with all due respect, this is not terrorist propaganda.

Cheney: Oh, Wolf… ...

Blitzer: And if you put it in context, if you put it in context, that’s what news is. We said it was propaganda.

jj mollo

I think the important thing is that we shouldn't rest easy until Iraq has journalists who can report as freely as Wolf Blitzer, who doesn't seem to value that privelege for anyone but himself. He doesn't have to worry that government agents will assassinate him in the streets, no matter what he says to or about the government.

Kevin

I guess the torture issue is a tough one. I would not be pleased to hear that we were waterboarding military personnel from countries that signed the Geneva Convention. Or that they were waterboarding our personnel.

But when the other side didn't sign, and beheads people, I really don't care what we do to them, short of bodily mutilation. It's that cold-heart of the conservative at work again :)

Frank Warner

Don't beat yourself up, Kevin.

The trouble with the Geneva Convention is, it doesn't say if waterboarding is torture. Whether you're treating prisoners in uniform or terrorist detainees, the definition of torture is far too subjective.

These things should have been defined with much more precision decades ago.

Frank Warner

JJ, yes, that is a good standard. When it's as safe to report the news in Baghdad as it is in New York or Atlanta, democracy will have won in Iraq.

Blitzer isn't worried about that. Or maybe he is -- he's worried we might win in Iraq. At least that is the tone of CNN reporting.

Jim

from jj mollo
"that cold-heart of the conservative at work again :)"

That's right. So leave the dirty work to us. that's the way it's always been. What upsets the cold-hearted, well armed conservative is when the possibly well intention mushy-hearted liberal distorts the truth to make the cold-hearted conservative look like a bad-hearted conservative. We can live with the truth, we do tend to get fired up when the attempt is made to create the truth. This is the best "liberal" site I've ever seen. Didn't mean to offend as your comments, jj mollo, didn't offend me. I just like the old-fashioned call it like it is approach. Thank you

jj mollo

Commenter names appear at the bottom in this blog.

I don't believe at all that conservatives are cold-hearted, just that, for lack of imagination, they stand in the way of solutions. I also don't believe that there are many pure conservatives. Some folks are fiscally conservative as I am, others are socially conservative, some are libertarian, some are just cheap, and others are overwhelmed by the complexity of meddling in things they don't understand. Still others think that the poor will always be with us, so why bother. Let's just call them pessimists. In my experience, social conservatives are the most likely to be generous and open-hearted, but also the most likely to be intolerant and obtuse about the effects of laws and the benefits of education.

I'm very uncomfortable with the idea of torture -- especially when Americans are doing it. I also think that troops in the field have to be under the control of their officers and the laws of the US. That being said, in the real world you must adapt to the enemy. ... Just be very careful that you don't come to resemble him.

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