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« 8 months after election, Iraq forms coalition government | Main | Green jobs are hard to keep here »

November 12, 2010

Comments

George

Frank, it looks like you have the bullet going through Connally's sleeve. Where was the bullet hole in his sleeve? I demand to see a bullet hole in his sleeve. (sarcasm)

Frank, you make a solid case.

Frank Warner

The bullet did nip his shirtsleeve, but missed the coat. Thanks!

What?

I think at this point because of modern methods of forensics the claims of the conspiracy theories have been put to rest.

Frank Warner

True. I don't mind the questions. It makes an intriguing puzzle at times. Almost always, the answer to the new question confirms the original conclusion.

I just suggest that each time we review this case, everyone keep his or her cool.

Barry Howarth

You have the angle of Connally's wounds wrong. The bullet trajectpr through Connaly was 23.5 degrees relative to the bodies midline. On your diagram it is 45 degrees +.

Barry Howarth

Updated version of diagram with the correct placement of Connally's wounds http://i51.tinypic.com/4s05tl.png

Frank Warner

Where did the 23.5-degree calculation come from? And what does your line (on the graph) mean?

Barry Howarth

Hi Frank. My line is the actual trajectory of the wounds through Connally. The 23.5 degrees is the angle measured by Doctor Shaw of Connally's wounds relative to his midline. Myers knows this, which is why he has to invent a large deflection in Connally, a deflection that all of the doctors who have ever looked at the case in an official capacity said did not happen.

Frank Warner

Did others measure the angle? Is this in the Warren Commission report?

George

How does a doctor even measure a 23.5 degree angle?

George

Barry Howarth wrote: "The bullet trajectpr through Connaly was 23.5 degrees relative to the bodies midline."
and:
"On your diagram it is 45 degrees +."

Solution: Turn the body 21.5 degrees counterclockwise.

Conclusion: It could have been a single bullet.

Barry Howarth

I think that figure is in the Warren report, certainly in the HSCA. Myers accepts it, and he's meant to be the leading authority on the SBT. He also says Connally was turned 37.5 degrees to his right ( no i don't know how he is able to be so accurate either)

Despite Myers numoerous TV appearences hawking his cartoon, he only mentions in a brief para tucked away on his website that his entire simulation is built on a huge deflection inside Connally, one he even admits he has no evidence for.

Franks method appears to be to simply arrange the two men so they fit the desired trajectory, rather then finding out where the wounds actually were on the men then seeing if they fit the trajectory.

Barry Howarth

And as much fun as this game is, the bullet that hit Kennedy in the back did not traverse the body, and never had the pleasure of meeting John Connally, so its all rather irrelevent.

Frank Warner

As I said, originally I drew the diagram to determine whether the single bullet generally could produce all those non-fatal wounds.

Now, considering the doctors' descriptions of the wounds (near the right arm pit, under the right nipple), I've readjusted the diagram.

One obvious problem with measuring a bullet angle is that it usually is done after doctors have cut the patient to look for internal injuries or bullet fragments.

The 21.3-degree angle is possible, but it is interesting what you learn from working on a diagram:

If the angle were that shallow, then either Connally's legs were turned farther to the right (where the bullet would hit the left thigh), or the slowed bullet deflected (or deflected again) off the large bone in Connally's wrist.

Again, I'd also like to see any of Connally's comments on where and how he was holding that cowboy hat.

Barry Howarth

If you look at frame 230, 300ms later, here http://books.google.com/books?id=DFMEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PP1&dq=Life%20Magazine%2C%20November%2025%2C%201966&pg=PA45#v=onepage&q&f=true

You'll see his hand is right next to his right nipple. Note Connally's unpained expression, which is one of the reason he believed he hadn't been hit yet.

Also if you read Doctor Gregory's testimony, you'll see he believed the wrist wound was actually made by an irregular bullet fragment rather than a whole bullet. He speculated that the wrist was injured by one of the fragments of lead that rained on the car when the head shot fragmented at 313. He has a point I think.

Reading the WC evidence is very instructive, as it bears no relation to their conclusions. Did you know, for instance, that a panel fo doctors, ballistics experts and commision staff viewed high quality first generation slides of the Zapruder film and concluded that Kennedy was probably showing a reaction to a shot before he went behind the sign? Which also was the conclusion of the HSCA 14 years later. And if you view high quality frames, Kennedys reaction to getting shot is unmissable at 202-207. This ties in perfectly with Phil Willis, who took a picture at Zapruder frame 202 as a reflex action to hearing the first shot.

Frank Warner

Lots of things are possible, of course. The fact is, even if we had 10 high-definition cameras videoing the assassination from various angles, we'd still have endless disputes about it.

George

"Did you know, for instance, that a panel fo doctors, ballistics experts and commision staff viewed high quality first generation slides of the Zapruder film..."

It was 8mm film which, by any stretch of the imagination, is not high quality.

Barry Howarth

This is what they were looking at - http://books.google.com/books?id=DFMEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PP1&dq=Life%20Magazine%2C%20November%2025%2C%201966&pg=PA45#v=onepage&q&f=true

Significantly better quality than the versions we see these days.

BTW, Clint Hill, the closest living eyewitness to what happened also adds his name to the vast list, from Connally to Hoover to LBJ to half the Warren Commision, who believed the SBT was rubbish - http://video.foxnews.com/v/4416213/jfks-secret-service-agents-break-their-silence/?playlist_id=87937

Jackson

ok, that makes sence about the single bullet, but what about the second shot? his head went back and to the left. there was obviously someone else. if oswald shot him in the head, his skull would've pitched forward thus excluding a reason for jackie kennedy to reach towards the back of the lincoln to grab skull fragments. yo uguys need to watch jfk one more time, mainly the ending.

Frank Warner

The shooting has been replicated several times in several ways, and the re-enactments show the blood droplets and pieces of brain and skull would fly just as they did, if Kennedy were shot from behind.

Set aside the "JFK" fiction. Watch the Zapruder film and judge honestly for yourself. When Kennedy's head is hit, it seems he is hit from behind. His head goes forward in the first instant. His secondary backward movement is from reflex and then, probably, from a deathly loss of muscle control as the car moves on.

Those skull fragments seem to fly backward because the forward-moving car is creating an airstream that catches whatever flies.

Joseph

Frank, I agree with you most times, but the diagrams are wrong. The single bullet didn't enter through the neck and even WC member Gerald Ford years later admitted to positioning the wound higher. According to the FBI report signed by agents Sibert and O'Neill, "Doctor Humes located an opening which appeared to be a bullet hole which was below the shoulders and two inches to the right of the middle line of the spinal column." The original autopsy sheet as verified by JFK's personal physician Dr. George Burkley also showed the wound at a lower position. If there were both a back and a neck wound we now have four impossible to make shots(including the missed shot and fatal head wound). If not, then the strange trajectory of the back wound is very hard for me to believe.

Frank Warner

Joseph, you don't have to agree with me, don't worry about that.

But I have to wonder how much precision the doctors initially put into their measurements of the wounds to Kennedy and Connally. Their first task was to see if they could save a life or two. Each surgical cut altered the wounds. They weren't worried immediately about measurements or exact descriptions. And they never could have imagined the conspiracy theories even the smallest error would spawn.

Just the description of the neck wound can cause all sorts of confusion. The fact is, a bullet that comes out the lower part of your neck at the angle we've been examining would have to enter the upper back, or the spot where the back of the neck reaches the upper back. Usually, we think of the neck on one side, the neck on the other side. The description could have been muddled when someone wrote it down. Referring to the back of the neck or the upper shoulder or the upper back says different things to different people.

I have the feeling that, if you got most Kennedy assassination experts in one room together and examined the documentation on this, we'd find their differences were rather minor. But I could be wrong.

Joe Elliott


Hello Frank

I just got around to rechecking your website. You have made some improvements to the diagram. Of course, it's impossible to precisely measure the positions of JFK and Connally at z221-z224, so I won't be surprised if you come up with more revisions. And you will always have critics. But the critics will never explain, if your diagram is wrong, why they don't make a diagram for z223 showing the correction positions of JFK and Connally and the correct trajectory from the sniper's nest. Nor will they explain what happened to the bullet that passed through JFK but did not hit Connally, nor any of the passengers, nor any part of the limousine. Did that bullet evaporate out of existence after passing through JFK?

Joe Elliott

Frank Warner

Joe, now I see why you were asking the conspiracy theorists to come up with their own diagram, based on an accurate bullet trajectory (or trajectories, for more than one bullet).

Where else would that bullet through Kennedy's neck end up?

And if conspiracy theorists think a bullet was fired from the grassy knoll, show us the path. If a grassy knoll bullet hit Connally, why didn't it also hit Jacqueline Kennedy?

Rob

Dr. Charles Crenshaw (Parkland Hospital, in the room with the Kennedy, examined him, was witness to the tracheotomy) describes the throat wound as a point of entry.

You can slide these guys around in their seats, and even place them on their heads and you'll never get a single bullet explanation with a neck entry wound.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLLpPDPcz3I

(start at 37 mins)

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