On Thursday, a massacre in the name of Islam; on Friday, a massacre for professional pride. It’s Saturday

Two days ago, we’re told, U.S. Army Major Nidal Malik Hasan killed 13 people at Fort Hood, Texas, because he believed the U.S. Army was his enemy for fighting Muslim extremists in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Yesterday, we’re told, engineer Jason Rodriguez killed one man and wounded five other people at his old Orlando, Florida, engineering firm because he believed the firm had left him “to rot” when it fired him two years ago.

Someone got a problem today?

Frank Warner

Comments

[Neo]

I think the problem here is the difference between motivation and justification.
Clearly, there currently is no link, and there probably never will be, between the motive for this act and Islam.
That said, when a guy is running around killing at random while yelling “Allahu Akbar“, it’s pretty clear in my mind that he is using Islam as a justification for his acts.

[Frank Warner]

Agreed. Or justification (before an act) is motivation based on one's narrowly personal interpretation of the faith.

No two people of any religion infer the exact same thing from what their holy teachers or holy books say.

Does Islam command that believers kill all infidels? No. Does Islam command that believers kill all soldier-infidels fighting in Muslim countries? That seems to be the question here.

What Hasan appears to have lost sight of is that the Islamists the U.S. is fighting only claim they are Muslim but they are not, and that those fake-Muslim infidels are killing more Muslims than anyone in the U.S.-led coalitions, which are trying to liberate Iraq and Afghanistan from tyranny and terror.

Unfortunately, extremists and other crackpots actually invite tyranny and terror, and view freedom as the ultimate scourge.

Imagine Hasan "helping" American soldiers returning from Iraq and Afghanistan at Walter Reed Army Hospital. I have to wonder if he was telling GIs, Your wounds were for evil. We might as well have put the "Thank-God-for-IEDs" Westboro Baptist Church in charge of the welcoming committee.

[George]

"Does Islam command that believers kill all infidels? No.

The Koran says "Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them."

Moderates have a difficult time explaining away verses that incite violence because Islam teaches that the Koran was dictated word for word by Allah.

[jj mollo]

There is a lot of variety within Islam. The old Muslims of France, for instance, are generally good citizens, assimilated and tolerant. The new immigrants from Muslim nations are dogmatic, mysogynistic and often proud of their lack of loyalty to France.

The history of Islam has been different than the history of Christianity in Europe. Wars within Islam were really political rather than doctrinal. Tolerance never became a necessity. There is imo a dangerous streak in Islam. An influential minority hold extreme views, and the remainder are intimidated. The Wahabi form in particular is expansionist. It promotes an Islamist worldview and does not fundamentally accept the concept of religious tolerance, nor the separation of religion and government. Unfortunately, this form seems to be very infectious among young men. I personally believe we have been foolish to allow mass immigration from countries where the majority do not share in our basic American values.

I am embarrassed for the commentators and officials who are so quick to brush aside and minimize the idea that Major Hasan acted according to the dictates of his religion, at least as far as he understood them. The mean streak in Islam is as plain as the nose on your face, but everyone pretends it isn't there.

Rick Santorum has a timely column on this subject. I do not generally respect or agree with Santorum, but he describes here a confrontation with Islamist thinking where he comes across as the soul of Reason.

[Frank Warner]

The Koran may say kill the infidels. I'm sure the Bible says something similar about non-believers. But mosques, synagogues and churches in the West don't teach that.

In parts of the Middle East and Indonesia, however, maniacs have taken over the religion in many areas, and yes, it's very risky to convert from Islam to some other religion there.

The larger problem is that Islamism, the perversion of normal Islam, is becoming the new ideology of world repression. With its numbers and nuclear weapons, it is quickly becoming as dangerous as the former Soviet Union.

It's Cold War II, and it won't end anytime soon. We should take their nuclear programs and missile tests much more seriously.

[Kevin]

Neo said: Clearly, there currently is no link, and there probably never will be, between the motive for this act and [i]slam.

I'm not following you guys. I would have said that there is no other possible reason for this attack THAN islam. The guy wasn't just in the mood to kill people and found justification in the koran. He was simply following the teachings in that evil friggin' book. The koran very clearly tells its followers to kill non-followers.

It's not like this is a rare occurrence. muslims do this almost daily. Why pussyfoot around the facts? The koran is evil as hell, and supports the murders carried out by this scumbag.

You can't come up with a solution unless you admit the truth of the facts.

[Frank Warner]

If Islam commanded all Muslims to kill all non-Muslims, we'd see that every day in the United States and Western Europe. We don't.

Ignorant boneheads quote the Koran to justify their hateful acts, so yes, the Koran is used. The Koran is Islam's most sacred book, so yes, Islam is the backdrop.

But unless we have evidence that all the mullahs, or even half of them, are telling Muslims to kill all infidels, it's reasonable to assume these killers represent, not Islam, but only their personal perversion of Islam.

That said, it would be helpful if Muslim leaders made this clearer.

[Kevin]

"If Islam commanded all Muslims to kill all non-Muslims, we'd see that every day in the United States and Western Europe. We don't."

Really, Frank? Are you really going to do this? Are you really going to deny reality to satisfy your pc wish that islam is not the most murderous religion the world has ever known?

Murdering the unbeliever is the CORNERSTONE of islam. They've done it for fifteen hundred years and show no sign of stopping. As much as I despise this guy, he was, in fact, just following orders from the koran (slay the unbeliever wherever you find them). The fact that you, the most reasonable person of liberal persuasion that I know can't see this fills me with despair. How can America fight an enemy that 50% (the liberal half) refuse to understand?

I go to sleep very sad tonight :(.

[jj mollo]

The Koran contradicts itself, just like the Bible. It requires interpretation. There are a billion Muslims, but they don't all act the same way. There is a great variety among these worshipers. Compare an illiterate wife-beating Taliban to a Lebanese Sunni or a Sufi. Kurdish Sunnis, for instance, are extremely pro-US, generally very tolerant of women and other religions, and not prone to violence beyond what they see as Kurdish national defense.

There are more violence issues in Islam than other modern religions, but it is certainly not alone. In Sri Lanka, Hindu Tamils have been fighting viciously with Buddhists for decades. There is also the situation in Northern Ireland from the recent past. Nasty stuff.

It is wrong to characterize Islam as the most murderous religion, though. Consider the LRA in Uganda. In the past there have been truly murderous religions, such as the Thuggee, Bushido, the Aztecs' religion and Baal of the Furnace. That's not to mention Jim Jones, the comet Hyakutake, the Westboro Baptist Church and the Christian cultists who advocate nuclear war over Israel in order to hasten the Rapture.

[Frank Warner]

I don't think we're disagreeing over anything that important. Cold War II has begun. The enemy is principally in Muslim countries.

Kevin, you seem to have concluded the enemy is Islam itself. I believe that to be an oversimplification.

But let's say you're right and I'm wrong. What would you do differently to defeat the enemy that I wouldn't do?

[Kevin]

When the government wanted to put a damper on the white-supremacist KKK last century, they sent the FBI to monitor the rallies, record the discussion, find out the names of the believers, and tail prominent ones. They leaked the most embarrassing comments supporting white supremacy to the press.

That sounds like a pretty good start. Find out what the imams are preaching via spying, leak their comments to the press, name names, arrest anyone who advocates treason against America (like Hasan's imam for starters), and continue to do this until the war with radical islam is over. Be draconian. It's always worked for America in the past.

Be very public about what we are doing.

[Kevin]

Doh. Even FNC's O'Reilly kinda gets it. This pussyfooting around the facts has to stop.

[Kevin]

Consider the LRA in Uganda. In the past there have been truly murderous religions, such as the Thuggee, Bushido, the Aztecs' religion and Baal of the Furnace. That's not to mention ...

I'm pretty sure that islam beat all of those you've described except Bushido in a single day (9/11) in murdering tally.

Hey, that's a good point though. How did we stop the murderous Bushido code? Lets stop islam the same way! The world is certainly better off, especially Japan, without Bushido. Betcha the same would eventually be said about the end of islam.

[Frank Warner]

I can agree with infiltrating suspicious Muslim groups and reporting any conspiracies to violence.

[jj mollo]

Your link is fubar Kevin. As of now it points to Ann Coulter piece on why Obama is messed up.

[Kevin]

It wasn't a great clip, but it was the one I meant to link to, jj. O'Reilly finally seemed to get that it's NOT ok to blame Hasan's actions on anything other than the jihadi mentality.

I was impressed that he didn't, as usual, say that it's important to note that most followers of islam are not jihadis. It's a statement as silly, and as true, as "most nazi's didn't want to murder jews." It's true, but in the end, they did. Lots of them. History will repeat if we don't do something.

[jj mollo]

OK. I watched it. I basically agree, more with him than her. The victimology thing is a little off ... kind of a media conspiracy theory.

Obama and the military brass are just trying to suppress any vigilantism. The fact is, we don't know the whole story yet, not for sure. IMO it's pretty clear, though. Hasan is just a weak, isolated person with fanatic tendencies. Islam clearly spins off more homicidal maniacs than other modern religions, but you can't blame that on every Muslim. There are lots of American Muslims who serve willingly in the Army and support the goals of the US in the Middle East. There are many, probably most who are serving, who believe that the US is trying to reduce the violence against Muslims by others who consider themselves the only legitimate Muslims. It's tough to convince everyone. Muslims have to listen to a lot of hard-line propaganda. Fanatic Arabs send money to Wahabi activists in the US. They spread a lot of disinformation around, and we don't do much to combat it. Like I said earlier, good people are being intimidated.