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« Compare to U.S. war casualties: Another 203 Chinese die in mine accident | Main | Scrappleface: Kim Jong-Il threatens to nuke North Korea »

February 15, 2005

Comments

Carl

Yeah, how dare him have stronmg beliefs and actually use his freedom of choice to stick by them!!

jj

I think that the way the Cheneys have stood up for their daughter stands in sharp contrast to the way that Keyes has treated his daughter. The loyalty that Mary Cheney shows her parents is a product of the love she has received. Homosexuality is not a choice.

On the other hand, if she were a Democrat it might be a challenge.

Carl

Yep. It's smooth sailing for Mary Cheney who managed to get a job at the State Department (rather than at Halliburton).

Cheney Daughter Also Rises -- at State Department:
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050215/people_nm/people_cheney_dc_2

Cory

People are idiots. This idea of "tolerance" is a joke. The man chose God over his daughter because homosexuality is a lifestyle devoted to an abomination against God and Alan simply could not have that in his house and neither could his wife. If she changes her ways and asks God for forgiveness on this issue, then Im sure you will see Alan and her reconcile very quickly. Those who believe homosexuality is not a choice are truly fooling themselves.

jj mollo

Is this the quote that Keyes uses to justify his actions? 'The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides with the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who in the name of charity and good will shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon those with great vengeance and with furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know that my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.'

Frank Warner

Homosexuality is a choice? Why would anyone choose that?

In general, it's pretty clear that people are born heterosexual (mostly) or homosexual. Maybe there are a few environmental influences, but I doubt they play an important part. But once you're born, you are what you are sexually.

I have to wonder about those who think heterosexuals can be "tempted" into homosexuality. How would that happen? Heterosexuals aren't attracted to homosexuality, and I'm guessing homosexuals are attracted to heterosexuality.

So that temptation doesn't exist. If you're a heterosexual guy, you might be tempted to covet your neighbor's wife. You would not be tempted to covet your neighbor's brother.

I wonder if those who believe they might be tempted into homosexuality must be homosexuals themselves. Otherwise, as heterosexuals, they would see immediately how silly it is to see homosexuality as a sin into which someone could be tempted.

I can't imagine anyone "choosing" to "sin" in a way that would be repulsive to their sexuality. If you're heterosexual, there are all sorts of ways to sin heterosexually. Why go the other way?

Sinners pick the easier path to pleasure or material gain. The eternal truth is, for heterosexuals, there's nothing easy about homosexuality.

So drop the "choice" thing. By the time you're 3, your sexuality has been chosen for you.

Carl

Homosexuality is an aberration, period. Drop the bullshit about it's pre-ordained. That's bullshit, too. It's just a weak excuse to be odd.

jj mollo

It has been demonstrated that male homosexuals have different brain responses than male heterosexuals. I had a friend that I knew from grade school who, I figured out when I was 30, was homosexual. He was pleasant and friendly in elementary school, but had few friends because he didn't enjoy the sports that the rest of us did. I used to get him involved, but he was just different.

He was very religious, and I don't know whether he ever allowed himself to have a relationship, but there is no doubt in my mind that his future was set at age eight.

Carl

What you guys are posting here is all conjecture and spurious observations.

There is NO definitive study on this subject, there is no final one conclusion, and, for the studies that have been done, there is no consensus among those experts with differing opinions.

Alan Keyes is perfectly fine disowning his daughter, especialy in light of yesterday being Father's Day.

You want to quote some obscure verse and use it against Alan? How about just getting back to the Ten Commandments that hold such high regard among most of the world, regardless of their religious leanings.

Remember stuff like "Thou shalt not kill" and "Honor thy father and mother" and "Thou shalt not commit adultery"?

Well, I know they must not be fashionable to some since they seem to be conveniently overlooked on a regular basis. Or maybe some have re-written them to be modern and hip. Maybe to some they are now "Thou shalt not kill-- unless it's in the first trimester or you can find a doctor who won't spill the beans for a later trimester". Or "Honor thy father and mother-- unless you want to totally trash one or the other in public for maximum effect". Or "Thou shalt not commit adultery-- unless it's between two consenting adults who keep quiet and the other's spouse doesn't know about it".

What Alan's daughter did to her father was to totally reject everything he taught her and she basically sent the message to him "F**k you-- everything you believe is wrong". Such a nice way to honor her father. She evidently doesn't find it helpful to worry about one of the ten commandments. What Alan did was to totally distance himself from her ridiculous behavior in the hopes that his message to her would also be heard and that she would set it all right someday asking him for his forgiveness as her father. And his "tough love" doesn't mean he doesn't still love her. He loved her enough to choose to have her and she is damn lucky she is even around to behave badly today because his beliefs made him adhere to the "Thou shalt not kill" commandment.

I hope she had a very thought-full day yesterday for her Father's Day. She can make it all right when she realizes she did him wrong and asks for forgiveness.

jj mollo

Here are some selections from the Post column that reflect on the extent to which she honors her parents. Does honor mean obey? She seem's pretty good to me for a 19 year-old kid.


… Maya is more conflicted than her online rants might indicate. She shares some of her dad's political and religious foundations. She is religious and deeply opposes abortion, viewing it as the taking of life.

Still, when I asked Maya whether she is glad her father lost the election, she stopped short. "Should you really be asking that question? I mean, I suppose there is a conflict, but I'm not sure I wanted him to lose. I disagree with nearly all his views, but he's very honest and has a lot of integrity." …

… If she could talk to her parents now, she would tell them she does not intend to hurt them by going public. "I wish the fact that I was gay was not something that would hurt them either," she says. "It wasn't anything they did that made me this way. I really don't see why what I think should affect him in any way." …

… The end of the campaign brought no respite from the tensions at home. Two weeks ago, her parents said she would have to make her own way. "After all the arguments and tensions over the years, I always hoped it would never actually get to this point," Maya wrote, "although I suppose given our vastly divergent political beliefs, it was inevitable." …

… Maya wrote: "They say most parents would be thrilled to have a child who doesn't smoke, have sex, do drugs, hardly drinks. . . , does well in school, gets good grades, gets into the Ivy League. . . , goes regularly to church, spends free time mentoring kids."

Maya still sounds more sad than angry about her situation. "I wouldn't want to do anything to hurt my father," she says. Like other gay relatives of prominent conservatives, she has struggled with how public to be about her sexuality. …

… "It all seems kind of ridiculous," she says, "because I love him. He's my father." …

Carl

More bullshit.

Actions speak louder than words. I always pay attention more to what someone does, than to do what they say, especially when they are saying the politically correct thing based on the environment they are speaking within.

She pure and simple trashed her dad knowing full well how he felt on the subject. And she used her dad's public visibility without permission to elevate her own stature and to demean his.

She did NOT honor her father. She needs to make it right and she needs to apologize, not just in words, but in actions. She needs to do the right thing and not just mouth the words.

Frank Warner

Alan Keyes has the apologizing to do. He wronged his daughter, not the other way around.

jj mollo

Carl,

Here is a report on the research I was thinking about:

yahoo article

Here is a thoughtful article that would agree with your opinion that the issue is not definitively resolved.

Gene Watch position statement

I think these people have different motives than yours, however. They are afraid, I suspect, that any genetic markers can be used to discriminate against gay people. I don't know what to think about that.

jj mollo

Carl,

Exactly what do you think she should do in terms of actions?

Carl

Alan Keyes was wronged when his daughter went public, taking advantage of her father's public presence to fully embarrass him knowing full well it would. It was willful and ignorant. If she was my daughter and did that, it would have very little impact because I don't have a career built upon my work under public scrutiny. She knew what she was doing and she has a lot of soul searching to do selling out her dad like that. I guess she thinks being a lesbian means she can do anything she wants to anyone, even family. When she has worn out her welcome with the lesbian community who has used her, she will find out that it wasn't worth it.

If you support her behavior, you obviously have no compassion for people. And here you are criticizing the victim. Nice going, you hypocrite. Take a look at who wronged who and get real. Liberal, my ass. You only support people when they are liberals. Since Alan Keyes isn't, you trash him just like his daughter did.

Carl

As far as articles on this and that and studies on this and that, wake me up when it comes to a conclusion. There is no need for me to get excited about research as it proceeds until they finish it up.

Genetic markers are already be discovered for tendencies toward alcoholism, etc. How will all of that also get resolved? I guess we condone all aberrant behavior because they were all born that way and have zero control and zero free will to make decisions that make them behave differently.

Carl

Lest I forget...

It is interesting to note that Dick Cheney, former CEO of Hallibuton and current Vice-President of the United States, has a lesbian daughter named Mary. She had the class to not pull what Alan Keyes' daughter did to make it into a huge pronouncement and media event. Mary Cheney obviously has respect for her father whereas Alan Keyes' daughter showed her disrespect in public making a huge show out of her lesbianism and who her father was. It took the liberal comedy team of Kerry and Edwards during the 2004 presidential campaign to make Mary Cheney's sexual orientation a household topic for discussion. I'm sure if they had asked her (or her family) if her private life could be used like it was by those "compassionate" liberal Democrats during the "debates", she would have said "no" preferring her private life and that of her family remain private. But, don't let compassion stand in the way of a liberal trying to bash a conservative.

I'm sure Dick Cheney had a better Father's Day than did Alan Keyes.

jj mollo

Carl,

Please read the second comment on this thread. Maybe it works both ways. I don't see how she can be responsible for the pain caused by public knowledge of her status. Unless you think she's lying about her status in order to hurt her father, which would be way weird.

I admit freely that I'm not fond of conservative politicians, for the most part, but I thought that I did express respect for Cheney in my earlier comment.

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